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Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.12

Hi, my proposal would be to make KDE Applications 17.08 the last release we
accept applications based on kdelibs4, that means people have a year until KDE
Applications 17.12 to port the applications from the list below to KF5.

The ones that aren't ported we would just drop to unmaintained or if they have
an active developer team that somehow doesn't want to move to KF5 they could
move to "extreagear".

I know lots of you would want to see this happen *now* but remember there's
people using those apps so dropping them makes them no good.

Comments?

Cheers,
Albert

jovie
juk
kaccessible
kajongg
kcachegrind
kde-dev-utils
kdesdk-kioslaves
kget
kgoldrunner
kigo
kmag
kmix (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase)
kmousetool
kmouth
kolf
konquest
kopete
kppp
kremotecontrol
kreversi
ksaneplugin
kscd
ksirk
ksnakeduel
kspaceduel
ksudoku
kubrick
kuser
lskat
palapeli
sweeper
umbrello (is a weird kdelibs/kf5 dual codebase)
zeroconf-ioslave

Comments

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By =?windows-1252?... at 11/12/2016 - 06:24

Hi Albert,

do you also mean by this that from then on it wouldn’t be possible anymore to bugfix existing KDE4 libs and apps, or am I misreading this?

The background for my question is the much slower usage of KF5 until to now on MacPorts-based OSX/macOS systems. We expect/fear this transition to not be finalised until 17.08...

Greets,
Marko

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Albert Astals Cid at 11/14/2016 - 18:15

El dissabte, 12 de novembre de 2016, a les 11:24:51 CET, Marko Käning va
escriure:
Good, so you'll 4 four months early.

Cheers,
Albert

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By =?windows-1252?... at 11/15/2016 - 02:30

Obviously, hahaha. :-D

Sorry for the misinterpretation but, as I thought it meant August 2017…

Greets,
Marko

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Luigi Toscano at 11/12/2016 - 06:47

Il 12 novembre 2016 11:24:51 CET, "Marko Käning" <mk- ... at mailbox dot org> ha scritto:
This is about KDE Applications. We are already not shipping or maintaining anymore, let's say, kdelibs4 versions of kcalc, gwenview or kdepim, to name a few. This is no differente, with the idea that there could be a reference deadline for all the remaining bits in KDE Applications.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By =?utf-8?Q?Ren=C... at 11/12/2016 - 06:29

I don't see why people currently maintaining KDE4-based applications (by choice or necessity) could no longer continue to do so. The fact they're not included in an official bundle doesn't mean they have to disappear from bugs.kde.org, for instance.

R

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By =?windows-1252?... at 11/12/2016 - 06:36

I understand that. Yet I still wanted to figure out whether the old KDE4 repositories will stay around for bugfixes. Just making sure that KDE4 isn’t already considered 100% legacy...

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Luigi Toscano at 11/12/2016 - 06:49

Il 12 novembre 2016 11:36:41 CET, "Marko Käning" <mk- ... at mailbox dot org> ha scritto:
Almost every ported application has no more supported kdelibs4 branch right now. It would be better to focus and complete the porting. And agan, we are talking about KDE Applications only.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By =?windows-1252?... at 11/12/2016 - 07:18

Hi Luigi,

i know.

Yeah, it would be, but you perhaps remember since when I am already busying myself with KF5 on MacPorts-based OSX… We still don’t have the KF5 framework libraries as ports in the official ports tree. René is churning out update after update and made so many KF5 apps build and run cleanly on the underlying OSX/MacPorts/Qt5/KF5. Yet we believe that it is worth and necessary maintaining KDE4 with its applications on MacPorts. That’s why I got a little nervous when I saw this thread. :)

Greets,
Marko

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Elvis Angelaccio at 11/12/2016 - 06:44

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Marko Käning <mk- ... at mailbox dot org> wrote:
What do you mean with "KDE4 repositories"? The kdelibs repo?
Otherwise each app's repository will keep its KDE4-based branches and
you can continue to build them.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By =?windows-1252?... at 11/12/2016 - 06:54

Hi Elvis,

I meant each lib’s and app’s repository’s KDE branches.

The question is whether it will still be possible to commit to those branches for maintenance.

Greets,
Marko

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Dominik Haumann at 11/11/2016 - 11:45

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:42 PM, Albert Astals Cid < ... at kde dot org> wrote:
I think this is a very good idea and support this.

However, the list you provided is possibly longer, for instance there
are applications that are not part of this the Applications release. I
*know* that this sounds like it's off-topic, but I don't think it is
for the following reason:

What do you think about having a Randa meeting (or similar) with focus
on finishing ports to KF5? Would that make sense?

I'm thinking of apps like Kile or similar that while already ported,
still don't have a stable release. I'm pretty sure there are many
more.

Such an initiative would also show that we don't simply drop old apps,
instead, we would show that we care to bring along as many apps as we
can.

Of course, this would only work if we find enough developers that join
such an event.

Greetings
Dominik

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Sven Brauch at 11/16/2016 - 19:51

On 11/11/16 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
I'd be in for a sprint (or a few days of a sprint) to port those.

Greetings,
Sven

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Kevin Funk at 11/17/2016 - 05:25

On Thursday, 17 November 2016 00:51:50 CET Sven Brauch wrote:
+1 on kcachegrind, that would be a real loss. Actually there's an actively
maintained frameworks branch, maybe we just need to poke Josef? ;)

@Josef: Is the frameworks branch stable? If yes, let's release!

Consider me in as well.

Cheers,
Kevin

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Josef Weidendorfer at 11/17/2016 - 06:50

Hi all,

sorry for reading the mailing list very rarely nowadays.

On 17.11.2016 10:25, Kevin Funk wrote:
For my point of view, the framework branch should be as stable as the master
regarding features. I recently only added minor stuff in master, and always
merged that also into framework (same with some bugs).

Further, the last porting TODOs happened a few weeks ago, about reviving
icon markers in lists (if a call is part of a recursive call cycle).

So yes, I can switch the frameworks branch to become master already today.

Josef

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By R.Harish Navnit at 11/17/2016 - 06:07

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Kevin Funk < ... at kde dot org> wrote:
Cheers,
Harish

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Aleix Pol at 11/16/2016 - 21:09

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 12:51 AM, Sven Brauch < ... at svenbrauch dot de> wrote:
I've been using the kcachegrind frameworks branch for months. It's a
bit of an especial case, because the project maintainer maintains a
separate Qt-only binary, but he is responsive by e-mail.

I mean, in this specific case, it's possibly not needed to have a
sprint, just see if there's any reason not to get frameworks into
master. :)

Aleix

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Albert Astals Cid at 11/14/2016 - 18:11

El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 16:45:25 CET, Dominik Haumann va
escriure:
I would be all for it, seems like a good a live meeting seems like a good
forum to share/fix hurdles that may be common to lots of projects.

This needs someone to organize such a sprint though ;)

Cheers,
Albert

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Christoph Feck at 11/11/2016 - 13:24

On 11.11.2016 16:45, Dominik Haumann wrote:
Will we still release the KDE4 platform for not-yet-ported extragear
applications (Amarok etc.) with 17.12?

If we stop releasing it, then we should also move all unported
applications to 'unmaintained'. Any developer willing to port can
surrect it from there.

If we had developers with free time for other projects, that time would
be better spent on helping projects such as KDEPIM, rekonq, or Calligra.
These are applications several of our users would switch to if they worked.

As far as I know, Kile developer had to wait for the KF5 release of Okular.

But we also need someone caring for bugreports/regressions after the
port. We have some applications ported (e.g. KTorrent) where the
original developer no longer has time for bug handling, and now the
regressions pile up.

See above.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Albert Astals Cid at 11/14/2016 - 18:27

El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va
escriure:
I personally think that's a bit extreme tbh, if a group of developers are
stubbornly fixated in developing for kdelibs4 and not KF5 I don't see why we
should not let them do the releases if they want to.

But this seems a bit hypothetical, I *hope* any actively maintained
"extregear" app will be KF5-based in a year :)

Cheers,
Albert

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Ben Cooksley at 11/15/2016 - 02:53

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Albert Astals Cid < ... at kde dot org> wrote:
From my perspective, i'd like to drop CI support for Qt 4 based code
as soon as possible. Keeping it alive requires a whole additional set
of jobs and associated infrastructure, for something which receives
little development attention (comparatively).

Chances are we'll have to keep this support alive until Applications
17.08 is released, at which point I think we should drop it
completely, even if Extragear projects continue to use KDE 4 / Qt 4
based sources.

Regards,
Ben

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Albert Astals Cid at 11/15/2016 - 14:16

El dimarts, 15 de novembre de 2016, a les 19:53:43 CET, Ben Cooksley va
escriure:
Fair (unless someone from those KDE 4/Qt 4 projects steps up to provide the
womanpower/hardwarepower/anypower needed to keep CI for those running).

Cheers,
Albert

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Albert Astals Cid at 11/14/2016 - 18:12

El divendres, 11 de novembre de 2016, a les 18:24:42 CET, Christoph Feck va
escriure:
Does the person that did the port know of those regressions? Maybe the bugs
were ill-ly assigned to the orgininal maintainer instead of a mailing list and
its hard for that person to see new bugs coming in.

Cheers,
Albert

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Kevin Kofler at 11/12/2016 - 04:06

Christoph Feck wrote:
Even if you stop releasing the kdelibs, distros will keep releasing them for
much longer, some for a lot longer. (E.g., we still also ship kdelibs3 in
Fedora and I have no plans to let it go.)

Kevin Kofler

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Luigi Toscano at 11/11/2016 - 13:32

On Friday, 11 November 2016 18:24:42 CET Christoph Feck wrote:
I don't see a direct connection. This discussion is about KDE Applications,
and while I totally agree on having extragear applications ported as well as
soon as possible and we should try to see which active applications are still
unported, forcing them from not being released is a bit too much (i.e. they
could release bugfixes for kdelibs4 versions, for example).

That would be a huge help.

That's what I knew as well.

Yes, afaik one of the reasons why it was not packaged in Debian yet
(regressions).

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By David C. Rankin at 11/11/2016 - 23:18

On 11/11/2016 11:32 AM, Luigi Toscano wrote:
+1 for rational bug fixes instead of stopping release of unported apps
that will keep the backlash and howls to a minimum.

Apps like kuser, definitely need some TLC as launching kuser from
kickoff currently results in:

Application: KUser (kuser), signal: Aborted
Using host libthread_db library "/usr/lib/libthread_db.so.1".
[KCrash Handler]
#4 0x00007f79f27b204f in raise () at /usr/lib/libc.so.6
#5 0x00007f79f27b347a in abort () at /usr/lib/libc.so.6
#6 0x00007f79f314344d in qt_message_output(QtMsgType, char const*) ()
at /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#7 0x00007f79f49ec79c in () at /usr/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#8 0x00007f79f4a4541a in () at /usr/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#9 0x00007f79f4a45df2 in KApplication::KApplication(bool) () at
/usr/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#10 0x00000000004136dc in ()
#11 0x00007f79f279f291 in __libc_start_main () at /usr/lib/libc.so.6
#12 0x000000000041394a in _start ()

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Luigi Toscano at 11/12/2016 - 05:53

Il 12 novembre 2016 04:18:58 CET, "David C. Rankin" < ... at suddenlinkmail dot com> ha scritto:

Kuser (which does not crash for me, so it may be a problem with your distribution) is replaced for basic use cases by Plasma's user-manager (but no LDAP support iirc), so at least some users are covered.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By laurent Montel at 11/11/2016 - 03:38

Le jeudi 10 novembre 2016, 23:42:36 CET Albert Astals Cid a écrit :
There is a framework branch for theses games:

But nobody merged or finished porting.
I made first step but for sure I didn't have time to finish it.

+1 remove them in 17.12 if nobody finishs porting.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Luca Beltrame at 11/11/2016 - 01:59

Il giorno Thu, 10 Nov 2016 23:42:36 +0100
Albert Astals Cid < ... at kde dot org> ha scritto:

+1 from me, seems like a good idea.

Re: Dropping kdelibs4-based applications in KDE Applications 17.

By Albert Astals Cid at 11/10/2016 - 19:20

El dijous, 10 de novembre de 2016, a les 23:42:36 CET, Albert Astals Cid va
escriure:
And the 4 kdewebdev apps