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Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience

What about pulling the message stuff into plymouth and using dracut to
trigger a reboot which shows the grub menu? Something along the lines:
"Press ESC to see deatils or 'b' to enter the bootloader"

This way we would avoid showing the grub menu, but still give the users to
trigger a reboot into the grub menu .

The main reason against such an approach is - obvioulsy - the need for a
reboot.
And on the other side I dunno if dracut is capable to modify grub2's config
(to display the menu upon the next boot)

- fabian

Comments

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience

By =?ISO-8859-1?Q?... at 03/12/2013 - 11:00

On 03/12/2013 08:30 AM, Fabian Deutsch wrote:
This is an interesting idea, but I don't think plymouth makes it any
easier to display CJK & Indic glyphs. (Please someone more technical
tell me if I'm wrong here, I vaguely remember this being an issue when
we wanted to add a messagse to fedup)

~m

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience

By Stephen John Smoogen at 03/12/2013 - 13:50

On 12 March 2013 09:00, Máirín Duffy < ... at fedoraproject dot org> wrote:

One of the reasons why the keys to be pressed were displayed on
various BIOS etc in the old days was that while the rest of the text
might not be readable, the Function keys were (nearly) always labeled
F1->F12 so a non-native speaker would know that pressing the key did
something. At that point some sort of OS could be available that could
be customized to a local language was more available. It worked for
many cases because having done technical support via Babelfish for
several years the parts that were easiest to get across were the items
that looked exactly like a keyboard even if it wasn't the native
language one. And the most confusion was when they couldn't see
something easily to get native help.

My belief is that one should engineer to make the 1% of the time when
stuff is horribly broken the easiest to debug even if it impacts the
99% in some cosmetic way. Because most people don't remember the 99%,
they remember that 1% and make it in their mind the 99%. Understanding
that bit of human psychology is what made technical support livable..

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience

By Nicolas Mailhot at 03/12/2013 - 08:52

Le Mar 12 mars 2013 13:30, Fabian Deutsch a écrit :
Plymouth is not a mandatory boot process element right now, precisely
because people who cared about fast boot found it unnecessary, and people
who cared about maintainability also found it got in the way. Please do
not advocate hardwiring it again.

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience -> no plymouth!

By Reindl Harald at 03/12/2013 - 09:06

Am 12.03.2013 13:52, schrieb Nicolas Mailhot:
plymouth is a no-go as requirement

"rd.plymouth=0 plymouth.enable=0" are my first kernel params on a lot of machines

[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ cat /etc/dracut.conf.d/90-plymouth.conf
omit_dracutmodules+="plymouth"

is present on ANY machine i maintain

the only thing i want on a machine is:
* no graphical stuff at boot time, not any of it
* no submenus in the boot-menu
* the kernel list dispalyed for 1 second
* no rhgb
* no quiet

why?

because i want to see what me system does if i look how it
boots up within 15 seconds and i want to face ANY possible
warning nobody cares especially after a upgrade

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience -> no plymouth!

By Philip Rhoades at 03/12/2013 - 10:34

On 2013-03-13 00:06, Reindl Harald wrote:

+1

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience -> no plymouth!

By Dan Mashal at 03/12/2013 - 10:37

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Reindl Harald <h. ... at thelounge dot net> wrote:

Fedora boot process MUST look pretty!

Dan

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience -> no plymouth!

By Reindl Harald at 03/12/2013 - 10:45

Am 12.03.2013 15:37, schrieb Dan Mashal:
says who?
AND WHAT IS UGLY IN A KERNEL-MENU?

the only thing to which this new shiny attitude
hide anything from the users will lead is that
the next generation of users stay dumb beginners

who will answer the questions here in 10 years?

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience -> no plymouth!

By Dan Mashal at 03/12/2013 - 10:48

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Reindl Harald <h. ... at thelounge dot net> wrote:
I was joking. :)

You can always yum remove plymouth.

In fact we were even *gasp* looking at replacing plymouth with our own
theme for laughs.

Dan

Re: Improving the Fedora boot experience

By Frank Murphy at 03/12/2013 - 08:55

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 13:52:30 +0100

+1