DevHeads.net

Blacklisting Nouveau

FC12-x86_64/KDE

How do you Blacklist nouveau ?

I have installed kmod-nvidia because nouveau is causing the mouse to
disappear
after bringing computer out of a power down after about a half an hour.
It is nouveau that is causing mouse to disappear, i have installed
nvidia before and it corrected the disappearing mouse problem.

But kmod-nvidia is trying to start at boot up but nouveau keeps loading
module.

I have in /etc/modprobe.d a "blacklist nouveau" but it's not preventing
the nouveau module from loading.
What else can I do to preventing it from loading?

Comments

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Paul W. Frields at 01/28/2010 - 08:31

You need to rebuild the initial ramdisk, and I believe instructions
for doing that are shown directly in that blacklisting file.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Neal Becker at 01/27/2010 - 19:07

You don't need to re-run dracut. All you need to do is add this the the
kernel command line:
rdblacklist=nouveau

This is much simpler than other solutions.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Chris Smart at 01/28/2010 - 01:23

2010/1/28 Neal Becker < ... at gmail dot com>:

This is completely unnecessary. The module has been black listed and
all future kernel updates will exclude the module. The problem is that
the current initramfs was not re-built when installing the nvidia
driver (which it probably should do after blacklisting the module).

It's simpler than running a single dracut command? Even if you think
that it is, it's more _correct_ to re-build the initramfs.

-c

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Matthew Saltzman at 01/28/2010 - 08:08

Sure. Once you've done it, it propagates to new kernels.

That's probably true. That should be in the RPMfusion packaging,
though.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Paul W. Frields at 01/28/2010 - 11:00

Rebuilding an initial ramdisk is sufficiently intrusive that perhaps
the RPMFusion maintainers were reticent to just do it automatically --
especially if it might undo other customizations on the user side
without warning.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Matthew Saltzman at 01/28/2010 - 13:02

Yeah, as somebody else pointed out, it makes switching back and forth
between nvidia and nouveau a pain in the A. Maybe RPMfusion should
update the default kernel line in /etc/grub.conf, though.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Tom Horsley at 01/28/2010 - 13:09

So why was kernel mode setting such a huge improvement? :-).

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Paul W. Frields at 01/28/2010 - 20:57

Well, speaking only for two different pieces of NVidia and two ATI
cards in my household, it makes for a beautiful graphical boot
process. YMMV, but all my machines start up with the boot logo and
fade smoothly into a GDM login as intended. With more good bug
reports and testing help from the community, we can achieve even
better coverage.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Marko Vojinovic at 01/28/2010 - 21:16

Intel included as well. :-)

In addition, IIRC the intent was also to provide a "flicker-free" boot, ie.
avoid having the monitor switch resolutions several times during boot. IOW,
it's not just a eye-candy plymouth boot, but also avoiding that ugly annoying
"click" that the monitor does when switching. Also, the virtual terminals look
much nicer in hi-res. :-)

Finally, the KMS idea is apparently more elegant code-wise, because it neatly
splits the kernel-side and user-side of the driver. At least in the nouveau
case --- they don't even support non-KMS driver anymore. I believe there is a
trend to do the same in the intel and radeon world as well.

All in all, bleeding edge software, and our own choice to run it... ;-)

Best, :-)
Marko

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Neal Becker at 01/28/2010 - 07:19

rdblacklist approach has the advantage that I can switch back to test
nouveau easily (would be even easier if rpmfusion would make it so you could
reliably disable loading nvidia module).

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Roger at 01/28/2010 - 02:39

So many people having trouble

With respect, it's sheer stupidity that this issue remains unresolved
some 12 months later.

Please Fedora get rid of nouveau until it's the same quality as Fedora.

Roger

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Kevin Kofler at 01/31/2010 - 04:20

Fedora is never going to get rid of the best Free as in Speech driver
available for that hardware. We do not support proprietary drivers, or any
other proprietary software really, if you want to install that stuff, you're
on your own. As far as we're concerned, it "does not exist". Proprietary
drivers are just plain not an option for us to ship, and we can't fix any
issues in them, so we can't really do anything other than ignoring them.

Kevin Kofler

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Robin Laing at 02/01/2010 - 11:45

Then maybe there should be a blacklist all 3d applications until you
install 3d. The Gallium 3d for the Nouveau driver isn't supplied by
Fedora yet.

You can install 3d applications but they won't run and you get an error
message. Been through that route.

FWIW, I do run the Nouveau on a laptop that mainly is for word
processing. No 3d required, yet but all other computers use 3d.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Roger at 02/01/2010 - 17:55

<snip>
Then maybe there should be a blacklist all 3d applications until you
install 3d.
and:

Fedora is never going to get rid of the best Free as in Speech driver
available for that hardware.
</snip>

Woh! The above comments puzzle me.

Please explain how Nouveau is the best. Read my comments below before responding!

Please explain what you mean by "until you install 3D" - it makes no sense!

Please explain why Blender 2.49 or 2.5 should be black listed.

Please explain why Varicad and other engineering design apps should be
black listed.

Please explain why we should have to use slow glunky poorly behaved
nouveau to drive Gimp.
Open Office, Inkscape and not obtain the smoothness to which we are
accustomed.

Please explain about Nouveau dying if several apps are open at a time.

May I suggest you visit the Blender.org site and research the hundreds,
if not thousands of ways 3D is used and required.
As 3D is a requirement for serious and conceptual archeitectural,
engineering, scientific, marine and landscape design, Ot University and
others use 3D for graphics as do many many commercial advertising
companies. Please explain why these should be disregarded due to
difficult installation requirements.

We are succeeding in getting more users over to Linux and Open Source
than ever before.
Please explain the above which comment suggests that we should forgo
these because one Open Source application is not up to scratch.
That is unacceptable.

No! the reason I suggested as much is because Nouveau causes so much
unnecessary trouble for so many newcomers and converts to open source.

No discussion was made about likes or dislikes regarding proprietary
software and none will be entered into herein.

I am a staunch Open Source and Free software advocate and user
since1997 however I cannot consistently use even my most basic
requirementss. Open Office, Scribus, Gimp, Inkscape. makehuman, blender,
etc.

For me Nouveau eliminated my trials of Fedora 12, it killed an otherwise
almost working installation.

Nouveau will eventually be the driver of choice and I for one will
embrace it when it is capable.

Roger

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Kevin Kofler at 02/01/2010 - 18:15

It's the best available in Free Software. The nvidia driver is NOT Free
Software. Fedora supports Free Software and ONLY Free Software. So we ship
Nouveau.

You don't need to forgo 3D software, you just need to choose supported
hardware, which is basically everything not made by NVidia (OK, there's also
the Intel GMA500 "Poulsbo" netbook graphics chip and ATI Radeon HD >= 5000
(r8xx, codename "evergreen") chips which are not supported at this time, but
everything else made by Intel and ATI/AMD in the last few years has working
3D support in the Free drivers).

Kevin Kofler

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By =?iso-8859-1?Q?... at 02/01/2010 - 19:59

Sorry but that just isn't so. If your ATI card is a couple of years old,
it _may_ have good 3D support, but even that is pathetic ("working" !=
"good", or often even palatable) compared to what is available as
"supported hardware" in that other OS.

What is needed is real, up to date support from both major graphics
vendors, and that won't happen until enough people put pressure on the
vendors, who are currently more than happy serving primarily the (that
other OS) gaming market, to get on the ball.

Personally, I consider ATI to be nothing more than scrap metal waiting
for a rubbish bin, and you couldn't pay me enough money to ditch nVidia
for ATI. Out of three, two of the ATI boards I have had have been utter
crap, while I have never been disappointed with an nVidia board (or
boards); however, they both get low marks for Open Source support.

- Paul

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Roger at 02/02/2010 - 19:26

Personally, I consider ATI to be nothing more than scrap metal waiting

Agreed

For my needs Nvidia works fairly well, the others do not.
Roger
PS

Usability of 3D drivers is what we need and when Nouveau fills that need
it will replace the others wit little to no effort.
R

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Bruno Wolff III at 02/01/2010 - 18:08

On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 09:55:32 +1100,

Because the only other free driver is nv. And the consensus (at least for
Fedora) is that Nouveau has passed up nv and should be the default driver.

Applications don't get blacklisted. In this context blacklisting referred
to keeping the kernel from loading the Nouveau driver that uses kernel mode
setting. Apparently if mode setting gets used it causes a problem with
trying to load the proprietary nVidia drivers later since they don't work
with kernel mode setting.

For the near future these people should probably be using a different
distribution. Though maybe smarter packaging by the rpm fusion people could
make using the proprietary nVidia drivers more newbie friendly.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Robin Laing at 02/03/2010 - 16:14

As I am the one who said to blacklist 3D apps, I will explain.

No 3D hardware support, your software won't work. It doesn't matter
what you do or how often you install the software or attempt to edit
config files, will it work. It requires 3D support. It should or could
be a requirement before YUM installs the application.

To save the confusion, if a user doesn't install 3D video drivers, they
shouldn't be allowed to install 3D applications. I have run into it
many times already.

I do agree with you about different distributions. I don't recommend
Fedora to anybody that doesn't have some experience with Linux.

I would really appreciate it if nVidia, ATI or Intel would create RPM's
for their own cards so we could deal with them directly. Of course if
you have a bug, then you have to remove the driver to get any support.
Of course if the problem is in an application that requires 3D you are
hooped.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Kevin Kofler at 02/05/2010 - 19:18

That's not how driver distribution works in the GNU/Linux world. The
distributions (or in some cases, third-party repositories such as RPM
Fusion) are responsible for providing packages including drivers, not the
hardware manufacturers.

Kevin Kofler

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Roger at 02/03/2010 - 18:21

As I am the one who said to blacklist 3D apps, I will explain.

What stops Nouveau from being tested against Blender, various rendering
engines and Varicad, bog standard widely accepted 3D apps, then
released as fully functional before this discussion eventuated.

To sumarise: In the interim,
Use Fedora and distributions with Nouveau for 2D.
Use Windows, Sun or Apple for 3D modelling, design and rendering.
Roger

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Bruno Wolff III at 02/03/2010 - 18:39

On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 10:21:49 +1100,

This was already explained to you. The only two acceptible nVidia drivers
for Fedora are nv and Nouveau. Neither currently supports enough 3d features
to work with blender or many other packages. Nouveau is considered better
than nv (it supports kms, gets active development and supports some 3d
features already) so that is what gets used by default. So it is not going
to get black listed in Fedora. If the rpm fusion project wants to make their
package smart enough to deal with that, that is up to them (and that's who
you need to take that request up with).

Or rpmfusion or other linux distro's more friendly to proprietary drivers.
But not stock Fedora.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Bruno Wolff III at 02/03/2010 - 17:14

On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 14:14:29 -0700,

This isn't a good idea as the hardware the image is running on may change.
Think particularly of live images. 3d packages are supposed to check for
support for the 3d features they need and display a nice message if they
can't run on the current hardware. (Usually this is done by running a script
which does the checking and if things look good run the real program.)

This usually doesn't work out as well as you might think. Vender supplied
rpms sometimes do some pretty bad things (such as creating local root
exploits).

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Kevin Kofler at 02/05/2010 - 19:15

And this is actually how Fedora is already set up, see opengl-games-utils.
Now some 3D stuff might not be wrapped appropriately, that probably ought to
get fixed.

Kevin Kofler

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Matthew Miller at 02/03/2010 - 19:25

So, Bruno's totally right, but Robin, this wouldn't be terribly hard to
implement as a yum plugin (checking for a gl dependency).

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Roger at 02/02/2010 - 17:58

<snip>
Because the only other free driver is nv. And the consensus (at least
for Fedora) is that Nouveau has passed up nv and should be the default
driver.
</snip>

Ahem! Fedora is the creator of superb cutting edge software and I am a
zealot.
The Fedora user base has the problems, quite a different thing.

I sincerely can't wait for Fedora to have a truly competent video
driver, they will in the near future, but it's not here and now.

This conversation has been attempting to raise the free and not free
discussion for some time, done to death.

The original topic was to move nouveau out of the way so users can do
what they need to do without jumping through hoops as I and many others
had to do.

The discussion surrounds a driver's ability with 3D and other apps,
please don't change the subject.

Please, when Nouveau can expertly drive Blender and Varicad, let me know
and I'll be among the first to move.
I need both apps so please keep me informed of progress.

Roger

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Bruno Wolff III at 02/02/2010 - 18:08

On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 09:58:53 +1100,

That's not going to happen. The people that want to make drivers not included
in Fedora work, need to make that happen. You should be taking that up
on the rpm fusion lists, not here.

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Thorsten Leemhuis at 02/02/2010 - 02:37

Bruno Wolff III wrote on 02.02.2010 00:08:

Definitely, as there is a whole lot of room for improvements (at least
as far as I can see from my point as long term contributor to RPM Fusion
and old maintainer of those packages back in 2006 or something). It just
needs people that are willing to work on those improvements, which is
something RPM Fusion lacks.

CU
knurd

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Michael Semcheski at 02/02/2010 - 14:20

Personally, I just want to say that I'm pretty happy with the way RPM
Fusion's nvidia driver works. There've been a few problems I've had,
but none to speak of since switching to akmod-nvidia.

Blacklisting nouveau is relatively easy to do wrt adding a line to
grub. In our environment, I have a script that puppet uses to take
care of this (see below). It would be nice if the open source drivers
worked perfectly, but I'm a pragmatic user.

#!/usr/bin/perl
# black-nouveau.pl
#
# PURPOSE: Perform the necessary steps to blacklist the nouveau kernel
mod and allow the nvidia driver to work.
#

# Flag, represents whether or not any changes were made.

$update = false;

# The output which will be written out if necessary.

$output = "";

# The file that will be operated on.

$data_file="/boot/grub/grub.conf";

# Open the file, read in its lines, and close it..

open(DAT, $data_file) || die("Could not open file.");

@file_lines=<DAT>;

close(DAT);

# For each line in the file...

foreach $line (@file_lines)
{
# If the file huas a root= line, but no nouveau...

if (($line =~ /root=/) and not ($line =~ /rdblacklist=nouveau/))
{
# Append the blacklist line, and set the udpate flag.

$line =~ s/(^.*$)/\1 rdblacklist=nouveau/;
$update = true;
}

# Add the line to the output.

$output .= $line;

}

# If there is an update...

if ($update eq true)
{
# Open thhe file, overwrite it, and close it.

open (DAT, ">".$data_file);

print DAT $output;

close(DAT);
}

# Run dracut.

system('dracut -f /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)');

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Chris Smart at 01/28/2010 - 07:17

2010/1/28 Roger < ... at bigpond dot com>:

Rubbish. What issue remains unresolved? He's replacing Nouveau with
the proprietary NVIDIA driver, what should Fedora do? It is great to
see the nouveau driver in Fedora. Would you rather see nv?

-c

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Chris Smart at 01/27/2010 - 17:55

2010/1/28 Jim < ... at sbcglobal dot net>:

Did you install the nvidia module from rpmfusion repositories? If so,
it automatically black lists nouveau for you. However, your initramfs
still has nouveau in it. You need to re-build it and reboot:

su -c "dracut -f /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)"

Also, add the replacement X.Org server to fix the slow KDE problem:

su -c "vim /etc/yum.repos.d/xorgFix.repo"

[rdieter]
name=xorg-x11-server rebuilds for nvidia users
baseurl=http://rdieter.fedorapeople.org/repo/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/
enabled=1
gpgcheck=0

Update your system again.

-c

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Kevin Kofler at 01/31/2010 - 04:23

BTW, /usr/libexec/plymouth/plymouth-update-initrd can be abused for this
purpose.

Kevin Kofler

Re: Blacklisting Nouveau

By Michael Cronenworth at 01/27/2010 - 17:53

In order for your settings in modprobe to take effect, you have to
rebuild the kernel initramfs. The easiest method is to reinstall your
kernel, unless you feel comfortable enough to mess with dracut.

# yum reinstall kernel kernel-devel