My contribution

By Marcel Rieux at 03/05/2010 - 22:21

Maybe you'll remember I had problems opening files in Firefox from
TBird. If I clicked a link, it wouldn't automatically open in Firefox.
Here's the solution.

Under Edit => Preferences => Advanced => General, you have "System
defaults" which says "Always check to see if Firefox is the default
browser on startup". This option should be checked under all
circumstances if you plan to use Firefox by default. Here's why I
didn't check it.

While checking other options a while back, I saw this one and thought
I didn't need this as I only use Firefox to view html files. If ever
any application made Konqueror the default, I'd just have to come back
and remake a check mark to the option. But this never happened.

What happened is that when Firefox was upgraded from 3.5.6 to 3.5.8,
Firefox just stopped opening when I clicked a link in TBird. That's
when Evolution, where links didn't open either, was kind enough to
provide the following message:

"Failed to execute child process "/usr/lib64/firefox-3.5.6/firefox"
(No such file or directory). Of course, I have 3.5.8 installed."

So, somehow, Firefox wasn't pointing to the right version. Of course,
I didn't know that this had anything to do with selecting the default
browser. Yet, it did!!! When I clicked the "Check now" button,
everything came back to normal.

May I ask why you have to check the "default browser" option to update
to a new *version* of Firefox?

Need I add that, before finding the solution, I wandered the Web for
hours examining options like adding:

user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http","mozilla-firefox");
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.https","mozilla-firefox");

to prefs.js ?

&&&

Same goes for my "pdf files not opening in Evince from Firefox"
problem: mozplugger wasn't enabled. In Plugins, under Mozplugger, one
can read "handles Quick Time and Windows Media Player plugin" Not a
word about Evinve.

A few months ago, I had problems with opening WMV files and somebody
told me that gstreamer or gMplayer or something in the paraphernalia
could handle this correctly and that MozPlugger could prove a
hinderance. So, I believe I disabled it... and, strangely, had no
problem with pdf files until Firefox -- and maybe Evince too? -- was
updated.

&&&

While I was searching to solve the Firefox problem, I thought I'd take
a break an see how things worked with SeaMonkey. Everything was fine.
So I thought I'd test it further and I imported "Everything" from
Thunderbird. I checked a few newsgroups and, I suppose that it's after
rebooting that all the data disappeared both from Thunderbird and
SeaMonkey. Lost! All the messages I had saved! (Of course, I had a
recent back-up. Still...)

I went into .thunderbird and saw all files were there in
".foo.default/Mail/Local Folder". But a "Local Folder-1" had been
created which was empty and apparently the only one available to use.
Anyways, I finally recovered all the data from a back-up but, once
again, what a pain!

Is it just me who has this kind of problems? Sometimes I believe that
I don't have a single application that works 100% correctly or for
which the information is correct.

&&&

When I search "alsa" in Dolphin, the best file browser I found so far, I get:

nepomuksearch:/?sparql=select distinct ?r where { { { ?r ?v1 ?v2 .
?v2 bif:contains "'alsa*'" . } UNION { ?r ?v1 ?v3 . ?v3 ?v4 ?v2 . ?v4
<http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subPropertyOf>
<http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label> . ?v2 bif:contains
"'alsa*'" . } . { ?r a ?v5 . ?v5
<http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf>
<http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2007/03/22/nfo#FileDataObject>
. } UNION { ?r a ?v6 . ?v6
<http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#subClassOf>
<http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2007/03/22/nfo#Folder> . }
. } . }

&&&

Klipper is the best clipboard manager I have found. Still, sometimes I
select something in a web page and it doesn't enter the clipboard; I
have to select it twice. At other times, the selection enters the
clipboard but doesn't paste, even though it's on top of the clipboard
entries. I must reselect it in the clipboard before it pastes.

&&&

Oh, a really funny one. Here's what Knode looked like when I opened it today:

<a href="http://cjoint.com/?dgcNjJBH6c" title="http://cjoint.com/?dgcNjJBH6c">http://cjoint.com/?dgcNjJBH6c</a>

What's this:

Loca...
O...
Sent
Dr...

Moving the vertical bar doesn't lengthen the names and I saw no option
in the menus for this. Anyway, it doesn't make sense. Why do "Loca"
and "Sent" have 4 letters whereas "O" has only one and "Dr" -- for
drafts, I suppose -- just 2? Even if there was an option in a menu,
I'm sure it couldn't create such a mess.

&&&

Then, there is this problem with my BIOS, which leaves me the only
options of setting the user and Superuser passwords. I shorted the
CMOS and everything went back to normal. Rebooted, no more options
again. Of course, there's a sleuth of different mobos but I bought
mine 8 months ago and it was out in Asia roughly 6 months earlier.

It's really funny to learn from people here that market share isn't
important, because Linux isn't a business. Apparently, making mobos
is, though... Maybe if Linux had more market share, we'd get the
drivers more easily, open... or closed.

&&&

Some people might suggest that, since I'm far from an expert, I should
switch to Ubuntu. Well, I did try Mint in order to see if it could get
sound to my TV. It booted to a black screen. YAC! (Yet Another
Coaster!)

&&&

I could go on like this for days. It reminds me of when I began using
Linux in 2001 and it was "Next year everything will get better." So, I
can't help but to wonder: do you people, for instance, work with
clipboard managers that work flawlessly?

If I'm the only one with those problems, I suppose I'm dealing with a
skewer of very imaginative hackers. And this, despite my modem/router
being so fully stealthed at grc.com that I can't even make a
traceroute; despite not offering a single service; despite having
SELinux fully enabled and making updates as soon as they are
available. Is there a security problem with Fedora despite having all
the security options enabled?

If you indeed experience at least some of the bugs I'm facing, how
come they don't get fixed? Don't you all fill bug reports to tell the
Klipper developers that "New File" gets into the clipboard every time
you create a new file, being, of course, assured that the poor
developers all have such peculiar hardware at hand that, they never
noticed the bug that has driven everybody crazy for years?

I've heard that Red Hat 6 will be based on Fedora 12 and 13. What will
the New York Stock Exchange have to deal with: bugs or security holes?

If we all face the same non hardware related bugs -- meaning I'm not
speaking here about my mobo and sound problems --, isn't this driving
most people away from Linux? Is the way of dealing with this saying,
like some people on this group: "You don't like the way Linux doesn't
work? Well, get this: we're not McDonald. Go away!"

Isn't recognizing the problems the first step in dealing with them?
Then, maybe there should be a repository for default software, the
ones against which the least bugs have been found. Or a 1 to 5 star
system that would entice developers to do a cleaner job.

Maybe you have other solutions, but I'm afraid that, while programmers
can tune Linux into doing wonderful things, on the Desktop, the
development model just doesn't work. The problem is not that people
are not filling in enough bug reports. Some developers just don't
care.

As a matter of fact, from all the resources I saw available to Windows
Firefox and TBird users while researching my problems, it seemed that
more are available to Windows users than to Linux users. In such a
context, with Firefox, TBird, OOo, The GIMP, Apache and so much
more(1), available to Windows users, what's the incentive for them to
switch to Linux?

(1) See a list on those 2 pages:
<a href="http://www.opensourcewindows.org/" title="http://www.opensourcewindows.org/">http://www.opensourcewindows.org/</a>

I'm sure Ballmer kicked his developers' ass until they provided a
completely flawless clipboard application. Most probably, with
Windows, I wouldn't have any problem with my mobo and sound. After
using Linux exclusively for 8 years, I almost feel as if the Linux
community was telling me I should run to the store where I bought my
computer and ask for the OEM version of Windows before my one year
guarantee period is over.

Whatever nonsense Mr White might throw at me to state that real Linux
believers never admit there's a problem, I say there is a HUUUUGE
problem.

And, like it or not, this is my contribution.

31 comments

Re: My contribution

By Tim at 03/06/2010 - 03:23

I'm, now, *certain* that you're seriously nuts. You have unrealistic
expectations of the world, and are pointlessly annoying the people
around you trying to make everyone else fit into your odd view.

Re: My contribution

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 17:01

Yes, I must agree. Having to wait less than 2 years to get a clipboard
that really works or to be asked if you really want to delete files is
completly unrealistic.

We'll soon be on the sideline watching how Google copes with this reality.

Re: My contribution

By Marko Vojinovic at 03/06/2010 - 18:42

One of the reasons I prefer Linux over other OSes is precisely that --- the
machine does not treat me like an idiot, and does not insult my intelligence
by asking stupid "are you sure" questions.

I know, accidents can happen, but if I select several files, click on "delete",
go on to empty the trash, even answer one "are you sure" question (and get
pissed off by it in the process since I don't usually use Nautilus and don't
customize it) --- then, for the love of God --- I WANT THE DAMN FILES DELETED!

Now, if anyone ever "fixes" your bugzilla entry about confirmation before moving
to trash, please remind me to file another bugzilla and request that this be
reverted to old behavior. I will settle for a config option to have such a
confirmation, but it better be off by default.

And I don't even use Nautilus and Gnome in regular situations.

HTH, :-)
Marko

Re: My contribution

By Marcel Rieux at 03/07/2010 - 01:55

I couldn't agree more! This is great!

Yes, getting pissed off it terrible! I totally sympathize with you.

I certainly will! I sure wouldn't want to see a geek like you having
to uncheck an option in Nautilus. Man, there's a limit to making
geek's life impossible!

Meanwhile, why don't you try getting to the heart of the matter and
join the differential discussion. You know, just to make sure the
thread doesn't get flooded in totally irrelevant matters...

Oops, sorry! I see you already did.

Can you imagine a developer having a choice between Google and plain
Linux software development? Would the guy want to run around in
circles with Google or the Intel/Nokia (MeeGo) consortium? Of course
not! That's why Linux will be more and more the default choice of the
best developers.

Linux moves forward! And even if it didn't on the desktop, that's not
from where empires have been built and, anyways, Google doesn't know
how to operate servers. There's not a chance they will become a
hinderance. Right?

I like it so much when we agree on common sense matters!

P.s.: Here's another one, unrelated, but in the same tone:

<http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/cnews/article.php/3861596/Tech-Comics-Geeks-and-the-iPad.htm>

Re: My contribution

By Peter Gordon at 03/06/2010 - 17:37

With regards to the file-deletion prompt, the option has been available
and enabled by default for at least the past two Fedora releases (that I
can recall). In the "Behavior" tab of the preferences, it's the "Ask
before emptying the Trash or deleting files" option.

From my experience with it, when you "delete" a file in Nautilus it is
just moved to the Trash (hence, no prompt since it can easily be
recovered). It is when you move to permanently delete a file (either by
removing it from the Trash or, if you have the option enabled, deleting
it and bypassing the Trash entirely) that you are prompted.

Re: My contribution

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 20:02

The bug title report reads:

"Add an option to get a confirmation dialog before deleting files in Nautilus "

and this is certainly an error. It should be "deleting or trashing
files" but, from all that answers below, it's clear that this is what
people expect.

So, you're satisfied with how things work at the present time? Let's
see how you can trash your life with the way things work now.

I go into Nautilus. In "Documents", I have a 1.html file and a z.html
file. Since I don't really have those files available for testing,
I'll have to create them.

First thing I notice is it's impossible to create a file by right
clicking if you have more than a screenful of folder/files. Even if
you right click "Documents", there's no option to create a file. Now,
maybe that's because I have some very peculiar kind of hardware, but I
do believe that, if developerS were using their product, one or two
should have noticed. I suppose developers created Nautilus for stupid
newbies and themselves use a real file browser. So, that's bug #1.

Ok, now I have my files. I click 1.html, it opens in Firefox. Maybe, I
have another file I'd like to open in Firefox by the same occasion.
So, I scroll down and 1. html, which is already open, disappears from
the screen. Finally, no, there's no other file I need to open.

I read 1.html in Firefox and it's really captivating. As I come back
to Nautilus, I see there's a file named z.html that I don't need
anymore. I select it and trash it.

Well, 1.html was still selected and went to trash by the same occasion.

Now, I'm sure that, when their Trash can has 1000 files in it, geeks
like you check carefully each and every one of them before emptying.
But you know how ordinary people are, you know, people who have a job,
people who don't sleep well, people who are in a rush, all kind of
weird people: they take a quick look and empty the trash can.

If 1.html was a financial report to be submitted the following day or
1.odt was a love letter to a disgruntled lover who was beginning to
look elsewhere, lifes might be ruined. But Nautilus, the default
browser for Fedora, is for newbies so, I suppose you don't care about
that?

I have no idea how ChromeOS is now but, do you really believe that
Google will be that stupid? For now, I can assure you that, had you
given this answer to Steve Jobs, you wouldn't have finished typing the
last period, he'd have put you through the meat grinder and put you in
a plastic bag by the curb.

Nautilus is such a crap that there's nothing to do with it. For
instance, let's say you have a back-up and you want to recuperate a
sleuth of files in different directories going to different
directories on your system. Since there's no split screen option, how
do you do this conveniently? Bug #3.

Did I miss this or is there really no option to reopen folders in the
left pane as they were last opened with the state of sub-dirs? (Excuse
me, but while you're ranting, I'm doing all the work and I'm getting
fed up.) Bug #4.

Mainly since, if I want to move my 1.html to /Photos/Family. I have
1,000 family photos. There's no paste option in the file pane and on
the /Photos/Family directory. You have to go to the Edit menu, this
time. Bug #5.

Nautilus is a mess, is a mess, is an awful mess. Meat grinder case.

Who, here, has Nautilus as their default browser? Except, Fedora, I mean.

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Ed Greshko at 03/06/2010 - 00:31

Could it be that you're not moving the correct "vertical bar"?

I don't use knode, but I brought it up as a curiosity. Looks somewhat
like you describe above. However, there is a very light line between
"Name" and "Unread". I positioned my mouse over that and clicked and
held and adjusted the column width just fine.

Are you saying that didn't work for you? Or, are you trying to adjust
using the wrong "bar"?

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 02:16

You are absolutely right! I was trying to move the same vertical bar
as in Thunderbird. But those are the default folder names. Why the
hell isn't the right column size defined by default? Why isn't the
very light line well defined as are, for instance, those that define
the fields in the Subject/From pane of Thunderbird?

The main reason I don't give KDE yet another try in its present state
of development is they made all graphics next to unreadable. For
instance, they make icons that look like miniature paintings and
encompassing the full gray scale. When they appear on a dark panel,
the dark ones disappear. When they appear on a light panel, the light
ones disappear.

I tried to get the interface fixed in the past but never came to a
solution that I found satisfactory. So, now, I tell myself the day I
open KDE and I see an interface I can read, I'm going to give it
another try.

I suppose it mustn't be a joy for you either, given your sight problems.

Why the hell is there always somebody ruining the show?

Here are a few other bugs I noted since I wrote this message:

There is a bug report here posted on 2007-03-25:

If a file or a folder is selected in Nautilus and you accidently press
Delete button, they are moved to the Trash.

NO warning is issued (even though in Nautilus Preferences "Ask before
emptying the Trash or deleting files" is selected )

Very annoying and dangerous bug to a common user - I deleted very
important data without realising then cleaned the Trash, so lost that
information.

<a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/95853" title="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/95853">https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/95853</a>

That was 2 years ago and it's a very serious bug. Is it fixed on your
system? It's not on mine.

I had permission problems with the files on my back-up and I had to
reinstall Thunderbird. I noticed that if you check the option "Check
for new messages at start-up", the group list doesn't download.

Why does Nautilus use CTRL + H to show/hide hidden files while Dolphin
uses ALT + "." . Isn't there a standard that both could use? Is it
really necessary to have competition between Linux Desktop
environments?

In Nautilus, when I'm in my /home directory, CTRL + H show hidden
files but, when I'm in /media (my back-up) CTRL + H folds all folders
and files in the upper level directory.

In Nautilus, if I click a directory, sub-directories show, I click a
sub-dir, other sub-dirs show. I click the back arrow, *sometimes* all
sub-dirs fold, mainly when arriving at the ~ level?

Etc., etc.

I could file 10 bug reports a day. It this the kind of crap they're
dealing with at the NYSE? Of course not! Linux is running the
infrastructure for transactions. For the desktop, everybody uses
Windows.

Can you imagine the kind of tantrum Steve Jobs would go in if he was
presented this kind of software? Man! Blood would be flying all over
the place!

Is Linux on the Desktop more than a mirage?

P.s.: No time to re-read. I hope it makes sense :)

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Ed Greshko at 03/06/2010 - 02:51

The column adjustment method is pretty much standard in all
applications. I've seen numerous applications opened for the very first
time where column widths weren't "optimal". It doesn't matter if they
are Qt, gtk, Java, MS Windows. It doesn't bother me, since I adjust
them to my liking. However, once adjusted, they should not change.
I've not encountered any problems in this area.

I don't have any particular sight problems....other than missing the
obvious from time to time.

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 16:20

I thought you said that in a discussion about using two screens. Sorry.

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Craig White at 03/06/2010 - 01:13

This isn't rocket science and it's clear that the KDE programs actually
anticipate that the user can figure this out by his/her self. Perhaps
the KDE suite doesn't design their UI to the lowest common denominator
that is seemingly incapable of deducing how to use their standard
panels.

Craig

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Les at 03/06/2010 - 19:22

Hi, Craig,
While those of us who use lots of applications may be familiar with the
general concepts and will prowl a bit to get the right combination,
those who use computers only for a task just what to know how to do the
things they need to do.

This is no way unfair.

Do you know that the car has a differential or what that does? The car
would not work without it, but it is not part of the knowledge you need
to drive the car. But you do need to realize that the wheels rotate one
way on one side and the opposite on the other and that they run at
slightly different speeds, if you are going to race. That small bit of
knowledge along with other similar bits would make you the exception on
the course and give you an advantage. It is the same with computers.

To say someone is incapable is a self aggrandizing statement, and
implies that you are better than the gentle person in question. Maybe
you are, but probably only in some areas. ditto for me. I excel in
some areas and not so good in others. But that is human.

The point is, though, that for the computer to be useful, it must meet
the needs of the users, not the developers. It is a vital distinction.
A good engineer listens to this kind of feedback and tries to come up
with a solution.

A foolish manager will denigrate this kind of input, and loose
credibility with both staff and customers, as well as doom his product,
whatever it might be, to obscurity. I've worked for or with some of
those from time to time, and it is an exercise in design and engineering
futility. So be open to the input, try to think how to help improve the
situation, and make our beloved linux more powerful and more useful.

And to be honest, good documentation is a major weakness in Linux on
all fronts, from the OS itself, to the utilities. There are not enough
books and not enough well written on-line tutorials to really help the
novice, and those that do exist don't seem to ever be updated (except
for the Wiki's).

This is all just my honest opinion based upon my personal experience.

Regards,
Les H

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Craig White at 03/07/2010 - 01:27

There are many different software choices on Linux and it would be folly
to suggest (as you are indeed suggesting) that all of the choices be
'dumbed' down to the lowest common denominator of users. It is perfectly
valid that some software has a barrier to entry, that it requires some
knowledge and intuitiveness by the user. There are large numbers of
users who cannot actually use Adobe Illustrator for example... are you
suggesting that because large numbers of computer users cannot actually
do anything with it that it is 'doomed'? I am using this as just a
single example of software that certainly meets the needs of the
majority of its users but certainly isn't suitable for a great many
computer users.

You completely failed to differentiate that there are computer users and
there are specific software items that are not intended for every
computer user.

In my case, I think I sort of appreciate KDE and the fact that they are
trying to use some sophisticated UI elements and I'm not the least bit
bothered by the fact that there are some who cannot intuit how to use
their software. Last time I checked, KDE and application suites were
optional installs.

The fact that the OP cannot comprehend the UI of a particular program
does not necessarily represent a problem with Linux at all. The only
thing it certainly represents is a barrier to entry (usage). The only
proven method of changing open source software is bug reporting and
everything else is irrelevant. If the OP or you actually feel that the
particular software (in this case Knode) has a problem, then why hasn't
someone filed a bug report?

I will simply say this... there are people who will curse the darkness
and people who will light candles. I think we know where the OP fits in
that equation.

Craig

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Marcel Rieux at 03/07/2010 - 02:03

Absolutely. As I was telling Marko, wouldn't it be awful to ask geeks
to uncheck an option in Nautilus? Also, what a hinderance it would be
for developers to have one (1) clipboard that actually works
correctly. And so on.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your quick mind and brilliant
reasoning. So, you'll understand I'll refrain from commenting the rest
of this port. We couldn't agree more!

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 23:26

And since there is so much energy wasted on different projects, the
right combination often ends up being the "best" combination, which is
often far from ideal.

Then, tell me, are you an expert in photo and video editing software,
in databases, spreadsheets, voice mail, etc.? Wouldn't it be nice if
there was a default repository where you could find applications to,
at least, get you started conveniently?

Not caring about those people is unfair to Linux users. You end up
with 18 months old motherboards whose only BIOS option is entering the
password. That's if you're lucky. If the newbie uses one of those "fun
little distro" as LinuxMint or Ubuntu, he might end up to a blank
screen and, then, it will be "Linux doesn't work!"

It's a vicious circle. Less people use Linux because it doesn't work
and Linux doesn't work because less people use it.

Userfriendlyness is in no way a combat between geeks and newbies. In
all applications, you can offer a second level of configuration for
geeks with a warning to newbies.

Shit, I almost cry reading this common sense. Maybe it would be
instructive to know you better. Are you a geek or a "suit"? Who did
you work for? Can you tell us more about real case scenarios?

Sometimes, the right information is there but amongst so much
(hopefully) well intentioned, but badly written information that you
have a hard time getting to it. Then, somebody who knows the answer
provides the right keywords and pretends that "Google is your friend".
Of course, the eternal RTFM motto, with nothing understandable to
newcomers, also drives newbies mad.

See how Daniel J. Barrett explains basic commands in the "Linux Pocket
Guide". I believe all the man pages could be rewritten in the same
style and the man pages would be made clearer for everybody. Geeks
usually disguise their basic inability to write in Shakespeare's
language behind technical mumbo-jumbo whose format, they believe, will
necessarily make things clearer. Of course, just the opposite happens.

It's all the way mine too!

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Ed Greshko at 03/06/2010 - 20:45

I hate to mention this...but I wouldn't want to have you as my
mechanic. :-)

The wheels of a car *do not* rotate one way on one side and the opposite
on the other. You have simply changed your frame of reference. Roll a
bicycle forward. Standing on one side of the bike, the wheels are
rotating clockwise. Stand on the other, they are rotating counterclockwise.

A car would work without a differential in much the same way a wagon or
cart would. However, when cornering the tires would need to rotate at
different speeds. This would tend to cause slipping on one side and
dragging on the other and lead to control problems as well as damage to
the tires.

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Les at 03/07/2010 - 14:55

You are both right and missing the point. If you take the wheel off one
side of a car and put it on the other, its direction of rotation
changes, because it is mounted to a rim that will only go on with same
side against the hub. Thus I can say that the wheels do indeed rotate
one way on one side and the opposite on the other. You said it
yourself, clockwise on one side and counter clockwise on the other. It
is an engineering function. And it is not just cornering where the
wheels rotate at different speeds, but all the time. Tires wear, so
even if they started out measured to microscopic tolerance, over time
they would be different diameters. This means the wheels rotate at
different speeds even going down a straight road. Cart wheels actually
rotated independently of the axel for this very reason. Look at the old
wagons, or even roman chariots, the axel is a bar, but each wheel
rotates on a bearing on that axel. Some basic vehicles use a solid axel
and just put up with the stress on the axel and wear of the wheels, but
most alleviate it in some way.

And I would not want to be your mechanic.

Regards,
Les H

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Ed Greshko at 03/07/2010 - 17:53

Either you forgot to put in the smiley face at the end or you really are
a grumpy old man....or maybe that is Gene. :-)

Of course I am correct...and of course you are. It is all a matter of
frame of reference, which you didn't establish. Why the heck do you
think I put in the part about clockwise and counterclockwise? In an
earlier message I wrote that I didn't have a sight problem...but missed
the *obvious* from time to time. Looks as if I'm not the only one. :-)
:-) :-)

From time to time this list gets less and less fun as people seem to
take themselves too seriously.

And to think my objective was only steer away from a ridiculous
"conversation" into what I though was a relatively benign one. Nice to
see I was proven wrong yet again. :-) :-)

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Gene Heskett at 03/06/2010 - 23:59

Differentials are optional in real racing. And get less and less important
to the vehicles handling as the speeds increase and the corners tighten.
In oval dirt track racing, a welded diff is usually good for at least a 3
second quicker lap.

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue) [OT]

By Ed Greshko at 03/07/2010 - 00:13

You'd better tell that to the folks at McLaren or the folks at Xilinx

<a href="http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/sports-cars/mclaren-f1.html" title="http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/sports-cars/mclaren-f1.html">http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/sports-cars/mclaren-f1.html</a>
has them using a LSD and I don't think it is "acid".

and
<a href="http://me.queensu.ca/courses/MECH452/readings/documents/reference13.pdf" title="http://me.queensu.ca/courses/MECH452/readings/documents/reference13.pdf">http://me.queensu.ca/courses/MECH452/readings/documents/reference13.pdf</a>

seems even more complex....

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue) [OT]

By Gene Heskett at 03/07/2010 - 01:07

Limited slip is a whole new ball game, Craig, no dispute at all, and not
something we could engineer into competition go-karts in 1960 at any price,
we simply could not afford the weight. So we did the next best thing, a solid
axle turning in bearings mounted to the frame. 12" diameter, 6 inch wide
slicks on the rear gave us pretty decent traction even on dirt as long as it
was wet down & packed. Some of those karts had 40 horsepower on tap when the
loud pedal went down. My last one might have been able to find 20 hp running
on booze. A 14" deflector head two stroke with rotary intake & all roller
bearings, it actually belonged on a Navy boat such as the river rats for a
bilge pump. Had to spin it about 2k to get it started, and from 3k to 7k,
get out of its way, and stay out of its way. But it was also heavy, so while
I had fun, and really learned how to drive, it didn't bring home the trophies
no matter how far I tipped the can of dynamite. Even at my age, I still use
some of the tricks. Not all of course, the reflexes that made it work so
well 50 years ago, just aren't there anymore.

I would like to be a judge in traffic court though, I would sentence the
sober ones to a summer of campaigning a go kart. The worst they can do is
wear out a hard hat & get some road rash, but they would learn how to
actually drive, in a vehicle small enough that you can make a mistake without
its costing 10 grand in the body shop. That experience at finding out what a
vehicle will do at the limits of traction and beyond, will save them 100,000
USD in body shop bills later in life. Note I didn't specify which body they
would be keeping out of the shop. I tend to refer to hospitals as body shops
too.

BTW, those GP & F1 drivers we all admire? Many started out in go karts.
Unforch, they have emasculated the whole genre now with those lawn mower 4
stroke engines. The ponies aren't there, although some of the high priced
OHC versions have some potential if you could figure out how to keep then all
in the same box at the same time. Kawasaki hasn't figured that out yet, my
lawn mower has destroyed itself twice in 5 years just doing the grass on this
smallish lot. Full of oil both times. I had a Honda 350F once, it could
turn 11 grand, and when I threw my leg off it the last time and filled out
the title for the next guy was when I realized I had put 33k miles on it in
14 months, it had 57k on it then. If the new owner kept it full of oil, I
expect it was still going as strong as ever at 100k miles. That thing was a
Timex for me.

Those folks have long since learned how to meet the weigh limits, and now
have the privilege of adding a few pounds for such driver aids. When was the
last time the FIA re-arranged the F1 rules so we had some real
experimentation? Now they all look alike, Honda makes all the engines and
rents them to the racers. The devil can be in the details of course, but
those details can't give a given team even a 5% advantage, its often the .1%
stuff that wins the race now.

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Mikkel L. Ellertson at 03/06/2010 - 21:08

A better fix would be to only drive one wheel. Having a way to lock
in the second wheel would be useful, but not necessary. My snow
blower is set up that way - a live axle, and only one wheel driving,
unless you manually engage the lock on the second wheel so they both
drive.

Mikkel

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Craig White at 03/06/2010 - 22:27

Gnome is the default DM for what appears to be a reason - limited
configuration options for the users and KDE requires extra effort to
install and operate and generally assumes some amount of knowledge of a
computer UI. Most of these segmented panels mimic that used in Microsoft
Outlook where you have the containers on the left, the list of items on
the top right and a 'preview' of the individually selected item on the
bottom right. I can appreciate that some users have little intuition on
how to use this right away but I can also appreciate that generally, KDE
projects don't feel the need to dumb down their interface for everyone
just because some lack the experience or intuition on using it.

as for the tires, anyone who say 'My Cousin Vinny' would know that it
was the 63 Pontiac Tempest...

Mona Lisa Vito: The car that made these two, equal-length tire marks had
positraction. You can't make those marks without posi-traction, which
was not available on the '64 Buick Skylark!
Vinny Gambini: And why not? What is posi-traction?
Mona Lisa Vito: It's a limited slip differential which distributes power
equally to both the right and left tires. The '64 Skylark had a regular
differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama
knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does
nothing.
[the jury members nod, with murmurs of "yes," "that's right," etc]
Vinny Gambini: Is that it?
Mona Lisa Vito: No, there's more! You see? When the left tire mark goes
up on the curb and the right tire mark stays flat and even? Well, the
'64 Skylark had a solid rear axle, so when the left tire would go up on
the curb, the right tire would tilt out and ride along its edge. But
that didn't happen here. The tire mark stayed flat and even. This car
had an independent rear suspension. Now, in the '60's, there were only
two other cars made in America that had posi-traction, and independent
rear suspension, and enough power to make these marks. One was the
Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark. The
other had the same body length, height, width, weight, wheel base, and
wheel track as the '64 Skylark, and that was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest.

Craig

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue) [OT]

By Ed Greshko at 03/06/2010 - 22:32

I don't know about the others....but I'm not speaking in metaphors. I'm
talking about cars. Seemed like it would be more productive to change
the subject. (OK, OK, I've belatedly added the OT.) :-)

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Marko Vojinovic at 03/06/2010 - 21:58

That might be convenient for a snow blower, but not for a regular car. Having
torque only on one wheel means that only one wheel is pushing the car forward.
This would lead to control problems and damage to the tires while driving
straight, as opposed to corners. In addition, it would make the whole car
quite unstable at high speeds and during braking, since the car's center of
gravity is not inline with the friction force between the tire and the ground
(ie. nonzero torque in the horizontal plane). This means that back of the car
would tend to move sideways compared to the front, while driving straight.

I wouldn't want to drive such a car on a highway. Even more importantly, I
wouldn't want *others* to drive such cars on the same highway as me. :-)

Not to mention things like accelerating/braking from/into a corner, driving on
slippery surfaces and such stuff.

Finally, an eventual locking mechanism would be quite complicated to construct
and implement. You would want to keep the lock on all the time except when
cornering. And while cornering, the car would behave differently in left
corners compared to right corners.

You can get a feeling of how such a car would behave if you appreciably deflate
one of the tires on a regular car. (Disclaimer: I am *not* advising you to try
that!!!)

A differential is a *way* more simple and elegant solution, which completely
avoids all these problems. ;-)

Best, :-)
Marko

Re: My contribution (only the Knode issue)

By Marko Vojinovic at 03/06/2010 - 22:02

P.S. I'm a big fan of Formula 1, in case you didn't notice... :-D

Re: My contribution

By Craig White at 03/05/2010 - 23:39

As long as you don't believe that ranting on this list in any way
constitutes valuable feedback, then I don't disagree with many of the
things that you say.

But your contribution, in the context of ranting on this list is
generally worthless because like most everyone else, I will simply click
delete and be done with it. If you obtain some type of catharsis from
your rant, well then it wasn't the entire waste of electrons that I see
it to be.

Bugzilla is your friend. Upstream bugzilla's are often even better and
more targeted to the source (ie, KDE, Mozilla). Perhaps some day the
light bulb will illuminate and you will figure out that bug reporting is
much more effective than ranting on the list.

Enjoy

Craig

Re: My contribution

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 03:17

To me, stating that there are clearly too many problems and that the
development model for the Desktop needs a fix is definitely not "just
ranting".

This you certainly can do, but let me give you my 2 cents on the "if
it doesn't work, the code is there, just fix it" view.

When I began using Linux, in 2001, I was 50. There was already no
chance I would become a developer. But, hey, Linux was to become
popular just next year. Maybe I could help the neighbour install it?
Then it was next year, next year, next year and it's still next year.

In November 2001, my doctor told me I needed "a little pill" to help
my kidneys. Already, in 2007, I was taking for more than $1,000 of
medication a month, including Eprex. At the last blood test (one every
2 weeks)  my creatinine was at 200 and urea at more than thrice the
maximum level. I might soon have to go on dialysis. It will leave me
less time to fix stupid problems on my system and my poor brain, which
already suffers from sleep deprivation -- this is what is really
killing me! --, will be less clear than ever. Not only the neighbour
would rather give me $100 so that I DON'T install Linux on his system,
but I might have myself to switch to Windows myself.

Windows is not as bad as some Linux users pretend, you know. If you do
your updates on time and don't download anything in sight on your
computer, it will resist pretty much all attacks. Ask Charlie Miller!

And Ballmer will make sure the clipboard works!

The problem with Windows is that it represents all that I've been
fighting for all my life, you know, easy money based on scams that
finally destroys civilisations.

If I die using Windows, will it be for a lack of developers? Of course not!

Trolltech has been sold to Nokia. Nokia fights against html5. The
rotten -- guess what this icon is -- interface seems accepted
without question, but I'd bet they've lost most of their user base.
They certainly lost me... and Linus Torvalds :) What will those
developers be developing for next? Windows free software? OS X
software? Who knows, we might very well lose some.

What lacks in this organisation is recognizing the problems and fixing
them. If there are too many file managers, pick one, put it in a
default repository, and you'll have other developers either quitting
or fighting for their place in the sun.

Linux is now 19 years old and the "next year" excuse has exhausted all
its resources.

I have to buy my Window copy before 3 months. If I see no more change
in those 3 months as in the, roughly, 13 years that I've followed
Linux development, I'll have no choice but to switch back to Windows.
Maybe this means nothing to you but, believe me, it means something to
me. It's really something I'd rather not see happen.

You read nothing. Bugzilla is a joke! 2 years and you still can delete
a file on your desktop without being notified. In the present context,
it's just ridiculous! The day I see bugs being fixed with diligence,
I'll begin filing bug reports.

For now, if Red Hat 6 will be based on Fedora 12 and 13, Red Hat would
be better off taking good note of what I write here. If they continue
fixing the bugs only in Red Hat in order to tell the customers "You
want something that works? Forget about Fedora, pay for RHEL", I
foresee a major switch to CentOS 6 by Fedora users.

No more answers tonight.

Re: My contribution

By Marcel Rieux at 03/06/2010 - 16:56

Man, it was getting late! You know how dark you envision reality when
it's late...

Of course, the boys will keep on working for Open Source! They'll work
for The Machine. Google, ChromeOS, Android! Making a fortune with
popular apps. Waiting to join The Organization.

And that's the nicest future Linux could dream of, you know, being
incarnated in The Company That Does No Evil.

When other companies wake up in the morning their employees ask
themselves: "What evil are we going to do today?" No so at Google's.
They only follow the plan.

And the plan is having everybody on the plan-et with nice little next
to no CPU cheap computers connecting to The Machine. Wonderful plan.

This is going to work. Whereas Linux has to fight to be installed on
maybe .01% of the hardware, manufacturers flock to get Android.

I can almost hear new employees being greeted with a song:

Welcome my son, welcome to The Machine.
Where have you been?
It's alright we know where you've been.
You've been in the pipeline, filling in time

Re: My contribution

By Chris at 03/06/2010 - 17:10

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 15:56:57 -0500

Bartender! Gimme a hit of the same acid this guys havin!!!

Re: My contribution

By Peter Gordon at 03/06/2010 - 03:46

I for one have never understood the "I'm switching back to Windows"
threat. If Windows suits your needs more fully than does Linux, then by
all means: use Windows. Sure, we may discourage that; but we as a
community cannot force you to use something which you dislike or
disagree with. The decision of OS/software selection is yours and yours
alone to make.