Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

I have a Gmail account. I use Thunderbird on my desktop. Starting
yesterday I stopped getting most of my mail. It's on the server and I
can access it online with no problem, but only one or two of the lists I
am on download. I also have no problems sending mail, but if I send mail
to myself I don't get it either.

Does anyone have any ideas why this would suddenly start happening after
months of stability? And no, I haven't changed anything on my system.
The only thing I do regularly is run update manager and install new
patches and updates.

I have release 8.04 Kernel 2.6.24-22-generic. GNOME 2.22.3


Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Derek Broughton at 12/04/2008 - 11:46

No idea about the list issue, but gmail never sends you mail _from_ you.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Karl F. Larsen at 12/04/2008 - 15:24

Hi Guys, I am using Gmail and I found on Thunderbird that if you
double click on the weak Gmail you get several other directories. One is
called ALL and in that directory it is accurate. I even see my own mail
to this list! So in fact you can get it if you want to. I'm getting used
to not seeing my own email :-)


Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Derek Broughton at 12/04/2008 - 16:04

That's because you're using IMAP - GMail still doesn't _send_ you the
email, you have to ask for it.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Karl F. Larsen at 12/04/2008 - 17:26

Yes that may be correct. I am still learning how IMAP works. There
is not very much information on IMAP that I can find.


Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Bart Silverstrim at 12/04/2008 - 17:39

What about IMAP is confusing?

Primarily IMAP is a way of keeping email on the mail server instead of
your computer so you can access it from a number of systems without
losing your mail, and as long as the provider does decent backups of
their data you won't lose data.

I use IMAP with Exchange server with caching, so I can get mail offline
if need be.

I also have found that every freakin' IMAP server seems to be a *little*
different in their interpretation of the IMAP standards, so they can
each be a little different or squirrely. I have seen servers that will
allow only one additional folder depth to be added when organizing mail
and I've seen them allow multiple nested folders, for example.

I've also seen cases where Thunderbird gets the bejeezus confused out of
it, and I'll see mail with headers to one mailing list but the contents
are from another message. Right click the folder and go to properties
then rebuild the index to fix it.

If you search for the RFC you should find the IMAP protocol standard if
you are still curious about it. If you have a specific question you
might need to start a different thread for it...

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By CLIFFORD ILKAY at 12/05/2008 - 02:40

It's not "their" data. It's their client's data. In our hosting
operation, we don't back up client data unless they expressly want us to
do it and then we bill for it accordingly. Even if your hosting provider
says they back up your data, what would you do if their machine died and
their backup turned out to be not restorable, or if they went bankrupt
as the first hosting provider we used did about 13 years ago(*)? You can
scream, you can vent fury at them and you can even threaten to sue (but
not prevail if you did) but you'll still be without your data. The
prudent thing is to make sure that you always have a local copy of any
remote data that is valuable to you.

(*) The hosting provider that we used about 13 years ago provided great
service for the first year or so. One day, none of us could fetch our
email. Fortunately, I had a shell open via ssh so I could see the
problem. The server had run out of space on /var and of course the mail
spool was on /var. We left messages on their voice mail. We opened
trouble tickets. No response, which was very unusual.

I had made the mistake of using my email address within that domain for
the admin contact email. How can you make any changes to the domain
registration, in this case, changing the DNS to point to another
provider, when you can't receive mail at your account? I went through a
lot of hassle with affidavits and faxes and after three days of no
email, we were with a new provider but this ordeal was the impetus for
us to start hosting our own stuff shortly thereafter and eventually to
offer hosting services to others. Tip: NEVER use an email address within
the same domain or even on the same server as the domain you're
registering. We use a Yahoo or Gmail account on all our domain

We never did hear from the first hosting company again. As it turned
out, they had gone out of business but their machines were still running
and their web site presumably still accepting new accounts. For the sake
of curiosity, I monitored their web site and it was a few months before
it finally went off-line. Who knows how many people got burned with them?

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Bart Silverstrim at 12/05/2008 - 12:11

I'll remember that if the ISP is served with a warrant for data so
officials get the data but the client is never told of this being
served...courtesy of some of the wonderful laws our soon to be ex
president had passed for domestic spying.

*shrug* the ISP's I've worked with here make backups of their email
server because they can be driven out of business if they have a crash
and lose services their clients use. *shrug* up to them how they want to
serve their customers.

Hosting is a little different since it means the client is taking
responsibility for management. I was just talking about ISP email,
though, as I didn't think most users would be administrating their own
hosted email service.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Derek Broughton at 12/05/2008 - 14:04

When those outrageous laws were passed, nobody ever claimed that the
data necessarily belonged to the ISP - the law _specifically_ overrides
your right to privacy. That's what you get for living in a police
state, I'm afraid.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Bart Silverstrim at 12/05/2008 - 14:49

True nuff', but you can't give away something not's on the
provider's server, you agree to the terms of service, etc...they give it
away without you knowing. It's not practically "yours".

Point is that it may be the client's data, but if it's on their
resources, I think the claim of whose data it is can be kind of
nebulous. If it were truly yours other people wouldn't be able to come
along and take copies without your knowledge.

Again also I was referring in terms of an ISP, not service hosting where
you're just renting space (although they still can come and take your
servers or data without your knowledge or consent, depending on country
and laws).

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Mike McGinn at 12/05/2008 - 12:26

We backup email, but we only retain the backups for a week or so before they
get overwritten. When you number you email accounts in the hundreds of
thousand retaining all that data becomes onerous and expensive. Some
customers retain email on the server and some do not. If you take your email
off our servers when you check it, it is a safe assumption that all trace of
it is gone within a week. It the government wants us to save all this crap
they are going to have to come up with some dough. All our servers are in
colocation facilities for redundancy of banwidth and power. it is not as if
we can have someone there all the time to play with tapes.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Bart Silverstrim at 12/05/2008 - 14:54

Depends on your country, no? I thought there were laws attempting
passage that required XYZ time of data retention...I know public schools
in the US are supposed to be archiving data, mandated by law, for a
certain period of time, and corporations are being required to have the
data and policies specifying their retention policy so that if email
after...for example...three years is gone, you need the paperwork
available saying it's policy being following and not a convenient oops
that the CEO's messages to their underlings regarding missing financial
information is in the bit bucket.

I'm not a lawyer, this is just info from news and what we're being
ordered to do in the near future.

If you don't have the resources, well, that's your decision to risk in
litigation I guess :-) Schools in the US are "mandated" all the time to
spend money they don't have for the government (No Child Left Behind is
largely hated in part because it's all *unfunded* mandates and programs.)

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Karl F. Larsen at 12/05/2008 - 08:50

The Google bunch I knew at Stanford U were real good students. Their
business was set up to make money and even today in the bankers screwed
up economy they are still making money!

I think bar an error in the Gmail side our server is as safe as they
get. And it will last until I die which may be soon.


Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Karl F. Larsen at 12/04/2008 - 10:00

Hi Pat, I just got Gmail working on this Hardy and my laptop 8.10
and they are both using IMAP. So the question I need to ask Pat, are you
using IMAP?


Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Pat at 12/04/2008 - 10:56

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Karl F. Larsen at 12/04/2008 - 11:36

OK I think your set now. It takes awhile after you switch from POP
to IMAP for some reason. But once you get IMAP working it just works. I
am still learning all I need to know but look at your Thunderbird and
you will see an exact copy of all the files from Gmail on your Tunderbird.


Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Mark Haney at 12/04/2008 - 11:00

If you were using POP before, it's entirely possible a message got hung
up in the POP queue. And with POP the messages are sent FIFO so the
first one to hang stops up the drain, so to speak.

So yeah, I can see that. I've seen that dozens of times with POP servers
over the years.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Gregg Fowler at 12/04/2008 - 07:53

Assuming you are using POP, make sure that SSL encryption is still
checked in the settings. Nothing should have changed this, but stuff
happens. I seem to recall way back when a similar problem and I had to
re-do my settings. May be something obvious that you have checked
already. Other than that I could only think to check your "junk" folder.
If you use a spam filter it is possible that during the update the
filter may have become "tighter". These are kind of obvious places to
look, but the obvious is often overlooked.

Re: Gmail or Thunderbird problem?

By Wade Smart at 12/04/2008 - 10:06

20081204 0803 GMT-5

Im not sure this helps but I use fetch mail to download mail from gmail
and every now and then it just cannot connect. My logs just say socket
error. I check mail every five minutes and this will last maybe for 15
minutes but then its fine again.

Just to make sure, do what Gregg said and then also check your settings
on Gmail and make sure you still have external mail access checked. This
was a problem once for me. I dont ever use the gmail interface so I
was surprised to find it had been turned off.