DevHeads.net

Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation failure

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:50:20 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
If somebody should be interested, there's a thread at
<a href="https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024247.html" title="https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024247.html">https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024247.html</a>.

Somebody already posted a screenshot of a smart phone text, that is
broken due to line wrapping at 72 chars. Smart phone users expect all
other computer users to resize windows to wrap lines, which not
necessarily does the job, usually it's required to side scroll, while
they simply could rotate the text or don't use a smart phone at all.

My bank replied to my complain related to the new online banking web
site, that became unclear, that it now could be used with a smart phone.
Are people using smart phones in their home offices? Are people doing
banking in the streets? Why don't they use a tablet computer, if they
want a portable device?

What next? Carpenters using a smart phones to nail?
Shouldn't carpenters continue using hammers or nailguns instead of
smart phones?

Comments

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Liam Proven at 06/10/2019 - 08:24

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 14:10, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users
<ubuntu- ... at lists dot ubuntu.com> wrote:
This debate came up on the ClassicCmp mailing lists a couple of years
ago. I was very surprised that people _wanted_ hard line wrapping. I
do not want it myself and I regard myself as a strong "email
traditionalist".

Yes, I thought unwrapped would be more useful and flexible. But
apparently many old mail clients can't wrap text on their own. I did
not know this. The ones I used in the 1980s and early 1990s could. (I
have an email archive of all my mail back to 1993. Sadly I lost the
first 2 years on the CIX account in my signature, which is now 28
years old.)

So?

Yes.

Yes.

That means they need 2 devices. For about a billion people, especially
in Asia, their smartphone *is* their computer.

You know that in recent years, PC sales are well under 100 million
units a year? About 69 million last year. A year or 2 earlier, 88
million.

Smartphones sell 1.5 *billion* a year.

The entire PC market is a tiny rounding error on the smartphone market.

Cellphones already replaced landlines, PCs, laptops and tablets for
most people. In much of Africa there is no landline phone network or
cabled internet; there are only mobile networks and backhaul for the
mobile masts, nothing else.

On my team at $DAYJOB I have a colleague in Washington State USA. Not
far from the HQ of Microsoft.

She uses a satellite dish for Internet. She can't get wired internet.
This is normal.

Smartphones are computers. For most people, today, they are their only
computers. Nearly half the human race is not online yet. For them,
smartphones will be the only computers they ever know.

This is why it is so very tragic that Ubuntu killed its
smartphone/tablet product.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By oxy via ubuntu-users at 06/10/2019 - 12:23

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 14:24:32 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
cite?

heh... Well, folks are less likely to flush PCs down the toilet, snap
them in half in their butt pocket, leave them at TSA security, or drop
them while doing stoopid selfies on cliffs. A lot of the sales number
must be _replacement_ phones.

Tho', there have been a time or two when I wanted to flush a Windows PC
down the toilet....

Jonesy

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Liam Proven at 06/10/2019 - 13:25

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 18:24, Jonesy via ubuntu-users
<ubuntu- ... at lists dot ubuntu.com> wrote:
I meant to, actually. Sorry about that.

<a href="https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2019-01-10-gartner-says-worldwide-pc-shipments-declined-4-3-perc" title="https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2019-01-10-gartner-says-worldwide-pc-shipments-declined-4-3-perc">https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2019-01-10-gartner-sa...</a>

PC Sales: 68.6 million last year.

<a href="https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/2018-smartphone-sales-decline-news/" title="https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/2018-smartphone-sales-decline-news/">https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/2018-smartphone-sales-decline-news/</a>

1.43 billion smartphones last year.
1.51 billion in 2017.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By oxy via ubuntu-users at 06/11/2019 - 01:06

My closing statement:

<a href="https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024277.html" title="https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024277.html">https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024277.html</a>

While the Budgie desktop environment already dropped important desktop
environment features, to fake an iOS alike user interface, I fear that
the next generation of desktop environments migrate to a smart watch
user interface approach. Funny enough that applications on iOS devices
sometimes provide features, that desktop computer environments, such as
Budgie, don't provide anymore. Also funny that the GNOME MUA Evolution
has got a menu bar :).

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By oxy via ubuntu-users at 06/10/2019 - 12:39

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 16:23:02 -0000 (UTC), Jonesy via ubuntu-users wrote:
A friend tossed one out of the window, but it didn't solve the issue
for the long haul. The replacement Windows PC started misbehaving after
a while, too. I run Windows as a guest on my Linux PC, if it starts
making trouble I usually restore from a backup, sometimes restoring
from a snapshot already does the job, but since VBox has got it's
pitfalls, too, I usually connect a backup drive and spend a quarter of
an hour to get everything back from an USB drive. My backup drives
provide e-SATA, but my Linux PC doesn't.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Wade Smart at 06/10/2019 - 12:42

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 11:41 AM Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users
<ubuntu- ... at lists dot ubuntu.com> wrote:
My backup drives
I wish e-sata had caught on more.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Wade Smart at 06/10/2019 - 12:28

There are a lot of phones but there are also a lot of people on their
phones doing nothing. One can post that pc sales have slowed down
but are never going to write code, design sites, software, project management,
handle large data sets, graphic design, etc, on a phone.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By oxy via ubuntu-users at 06/12/2019 - 20:57

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:28:38 -0500, Wade Smart wrote:
FWIW I don't buy a complete computer, I replace parts of my computer.
If I buy a new mobo and a new CPU, I call it a new computer.

Sustainability related to computers might not be worth a statistic.
However, the EU and German government fake a lot to care about
ecological footprints. Banning plastic bags on a continent were
everybody is in favour of a rucksack ("Rucksack" is a German word, older
than the samrt phone ;) gains nothing. Is anybody thinking about a
smart phone's lifespan?

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By oxy via ubuntu-users at 06/12/2019 - 21:15

I'm not talking about a replacement for a broken or lost smart phone.
The smart phone community tends to replace smart phones that are
neither broken, nor lost, nor deprecated or unsupported way too often.
It's a huge market, but not a sane market.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Bret Busby at 06/10/2019 - 12:08

On 10/06/2019, Liam Proven < ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
Interesting, because "the 1980s and early 1990s" is before "The
Internet" - at that time, internets operated generally through
ARPAnet, from memory, unless they were standalone internets.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Liam Proven at 06/10/2019 - 13:19

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 18:10, Bret Busby <bret. ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
Not even slightly, no.

The email address in my sig -- <a href="mailto: ... at cix dot co.uk"> ... at cix dot co.uk</a> -- is hosted by CIX:
<a href="https://www.cix.uk/" title="https://www.cix.uk/">https://www.cix.uk/</a>

Part of the reason I've kept it is that to the cognoscenti, a
cix.co.uk email address means you were old-school and were online
before the trendy public WWW came along. Few recognise it now but if
they do, the reaction is "whoah, this person has been online for
30-something years!"

Which I have.

I joined in November 1991. I have friends on there who joined when it
opened up for public subs in 1987.

On its boards, Cliff Stanford --
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Stanford" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Stanford">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Stanford</a> -- was discussing his
idea for a public ISP in a conference called cix:tenner_a_month. I was
in there. It became Demon Internet:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Internet" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Internet">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Internet</a>

CIX didn't give you a routed connection over dial-up in the '80s but
you could send and receive Internet mail, ftp files, access Usenet and
so on. You could also do ftp by email which was handy. You told a
batch server what files you wanted from where; it FTPed them to your
private space; then it emailed you when they were done; you logged in
and downloaded them direct from CIX's servers.

Before that, I did have PPP via CIS, AKA Compu$erve; I was 100277,414
or <a href="mailto:100277. ... at compuserve dot com">100277. ... at compuserve dot com</a>

But before Demon you could buy dial-up from PIPEX in the UK:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipex" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipex">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipex</a>

Before that, I was on JANET via Royal Holloway University. I was
sending and receiving Internet email from 1985 on their cluster of 2
DEC VAX-11/780 machines.

The *Web* is a 1990s thing, but the Internet was around for public use
for a decade before that.

In the 1970s it was confined to universities and the military. Not by the 1980s.

I wasn't on it myself (because local phone calls cost money in Europe)
but many FidoNet BBSs were on the Internet in the late 1980s and you
could send and receive Internet emails through them.

<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet</a>

CIX was inspired by, and ran the same host software, as BIX in the States:

<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_Information_Exchange" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_Information_Exchange">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_Information_Exchange</a>

I had friends on that. Others used, and still use, the Well, the
Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link:

<a href="https://www.well.com/" title="https://www.well.com/">https://www.well.com/</a>

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Bret Busby at 06/10/2019 - 14:39

On 11/06/2019, Liam Proven < ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
I suppose that it comes to the question of locality.

In Western Australia, in the early 1990's, at one of the universities,
access to other networks was via AARnet, the Australian Academic and
Research network, which was a node of ARPAnet. In the state capital, a
man ran a service, with flyers at one or more of the universities,
where he somehow acted as a node on the AARnet, and provided a UNIX
email account on his server, and, free access to his UNIX system, so
that students could learn UNIX as users, which is probably how he was
able to have a node on the AARnet. That was a thing of wonder, and,
his offering was the only internetworking (as in what internetworking
means - communication between computers of different operating systems
platforms), that was available to "the public" of which I was aware at
the time.

In the early 1990's, the Internet was neither accessible in Western
Australia, nor, mentioned or taught, in one or more universities and
technical colleges in Western Australia.

But, then, in the 1990's, the FORTRAN that was being taught in Western
Australian academic institutions and technical colleges, was FORTRAN
77.

It is probably not surprising, in a country that is determined to go
backward, with wired Internet access having been forcibly changed to
the reliability of overhead, uninsulated, copper telephone wires -
sometimes it works, and, sometimes it doesn't, with about a 50%
success rate.

So, while the Internet may have been active elsewhere in the world,
the sailing ships carrying the bytes, had yet to reach Australia.

I suppose it is a bit like the countries that have Internet data
transmission speeds at and above the 1GB/s mark - in Australia, when
access is available to the Internet, achieving a speed over 50MB/s, is
regarded like the first landing on the moon.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Liam Proven at 06/11/2019 - 05:34

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 20:41, Bret Busby <bret. ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
I lived on the Isle of Man until 1992. It's a lot smaller, relatively
speaking a lot more crowded, but also relatively speaking just about
as isolated.

I used to read stories from people in the US and envy their superior
connectivity.

But I'd say it went something like...

* early 1980s -- BBSs become common on mid-era 8-bit computers (mainly in US)
* mid-'80s -- many BBSs federate for message-passing, big ones get
Internet connections
* late '80s -- serious professional users or rich geeks are buying
dialup accounts partly for access to Usenet etc.
* early 1990s -- some of the biggest online services (e.g. CI$) start
allowing PPP
* mid '90s -- most geeks are buying dial-up PPP & using it for email,
ftp, usenet, chat
* late '90s -- you're not a geek if you're not online; early adopters
are getting ADSL broadband
* turn of the century -- dialup usage dropping fast; some OSes more or
less assume broadband, e.g. for updates
* early "noughties" (2001-2004 ish) -- dialup all but dead. Early
adopters are on megabit+ and adopting wifi
* mid-noughties: wired internet is becoming passé

I started working in IT in 1988. We had a *synchronous* modem
connection (not RS232 or anything like that!) to an IBM support
service for product patches. It was EXPEN$IVE and we didn't use it a
lot. No email or online contact to the business.

2nd job, 1991. I got my own dial-up account and permanent personal
email. Some others were doing the same.

3rd job, 1992. Most young techies had an email address.

4th job, 1993. I bought my employer its own domain name. We had
intra-company email but only inside regional offices. Trans-Atlantic
comms used Compu$erve occasionally. We had X.25 that we didn't use,
but branch-to-HQ data was over redundant leased lines, over DECnet.

5th job, 1995. We had company-wide email & I put in an Internet gateway for it.

Went freelance, 1996. Started putting in company-wide dial-on-demand
proxy servers for clients; web access on the desktop & 1 company email
address was common, hi-tech companies had individual employee emails.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Bret Busby at 06/10/2019 - 14:44

On 11/06/2019, Bret Busby <bret. ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
That last part should have been

"
in Australia, when wired access is actually available to the Internet,
achieving a speed over 50MB/s, is regarded like the first landing on
the moon was, at the time that it happened.
"

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Wade Smart at 06/10/2019 - 12:19

Sure there was email in the 80's. What wasnt said was it was
sent over the "internet".

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Bret Busby at 06/10/2019 - 12:19

On 11/06/2019, Bret Busby <bret. ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
And, from memory, the main (if not the only) cross-platform email
clients, from that time, were pine and elm.

I still use the son of pine; alpine, and I had used pine, until it was
no longer supported.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Liam Proven at 06/10/2019 - 13:23

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 18:20, Bret Busby <bret. ... at gmail dot com> wrote:
I didn't need it to be cross-platform, so I used an MS-DOS one called
Matrix. It is mentioned here:

<a href="https://www.cix.uk/contact/about" title="https://www.cix.uk/contact/about">https://www.cix.uk/contact/about</a>

Then I switched to Ameol, as mentioned here:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIX" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIX">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIX</a>

At work, I had an account on our DEC ALL-IN-1 system.

<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL-IN-1" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL-IN-1">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALL-IN-1</a>

By 1995 I maintained PC-Pro magazine's email gateway, running on NT
Server 3.51 using a commercial gateway from POP3/SMTP to Microsoft
Mail, which goes back to 1988.

<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail</a>

So, no, this stuff is older than you think!

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By Little Girl at 06/10/2019 - 13:05

Hey there,

There was also Silly Little Mail Reader (SLMR) back in the BBS days.

Re: Line wrapping for smart phones - Was: 18.04 LTS installation

By oxy via ubuntu-users at 06/10/2019 - 11:42

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 14:24:32 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
Good point!

<a href="https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024264.html" title="https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024264.html">https://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2019-June/024264.html</a>